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Homebrew PS2, PSP & PS3 Development Discussions
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HONGXING
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:26 am Post subject: DCT4Calc on PS2 (Unlock Nokias with your PS2 *g* ) |
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I am seeking one or more expierienced PS2 developers, who can help to port my DOS "DCT4Calc" to PS2, including a nice menu. It is programmed in C. But I have no expierience on PS2 platform.
DCT4Calc was the first and is still the best mastercode calculator for Nokia DCT4 series, enabling users to remove the SIM-lock from most new Nokia phones in seconds by entering the calculated codes into the phone.
Maybe I will do myself a port to old Playstation (PSX), but if anyone wants to do a PS2-version, I will be glad to co-develop.
You can check out my PC-based "DCT4Calc/DCT3Calc" package that runs on DOS/8086 here:
http://members.chello.at/administrator/DOSCALC.zip
If this becomes reality, I think it will be a killer homebrew app that saves you a lot of money (no need to pay repair shops for unlocking).
You PS2DEV-guys should do the menu, and so on and I will consult them about the calculation algorithm. I plan to release it as "DCT4Calc" including all the developer's credits equally that participated.
I would not like to have it opensource, because of what happened with UMCDR. Maybe even Z would copy it and release it as "their" work or even press it commercially onto selfbootable CDs.
I want to prevent that, therefore, I would only like to have developers involved in the project to share sources.
An old Playstation (PSX) version will probably be done by only me. |
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soks
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:29 am Post subject: |
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You know I'm just pissed now that I threw my Nokia 3650 against the wall of my building just a week or so ago... it didn't quite survive... that and I'm not a good PS2 developer, so I can't help but commenting is always fun and easy =)
Goodluck though, I'll be trying the DOS one as soon as I get a new phone... 1 more month on the contract =P (Gotta love T-Mobile, gave me FREE early termination). |
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HONGXING
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Please note, that in USA there is some difference in config keys.
It is not a bug of DCT4Calc. As I live in europe, I don't know much about this, I only tested DCT4Calc on european phones.
You will only calculate correct codes, if you feed the correct values. |
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evilo
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:20 am Post subject: |
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well. first, I personnaly don't see the interest to have such a tool on the ps2..
then, other will correct me If I'm wrong but the point in ps2dev is also the open source philosophy and share experience with the community...
next point :
"You PS2DEV-guys should do the menu, and so on and I will consult them about the calculation algorithm"
why don't you rather consult ps2dev tutorials on ps2 coding ?
last point... is it at least legal ? |
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like a poor attempt at a scam to get free work out of people here. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Well, in fairness he checked first on ps-scene.org and someone directed him here. I almost posted on ps2-scene.org suggesting it might not be a good idea considering everything, but was conflicted on whether to discourage posting in advance.
My concerns about this proposal are:
1. First and foremost, its a likely DMCA issue, since simlocks protect a business model with the phones. Now, I think most of us don't care about silly little business models, but that doesn't change the legal issue. Its not something many people want to touch.
2. This doesn't advance DEV efforts, its purely a utility application. Nothing wrong with utility applications, thats what DEV efforts enable, but there are efforts and there are efforts.
3. Its hard to understand what this application brings to the PS2 console.
4. The person is asking for people to share development effort, and doesn't seem interesting in learning PS2DEV himself.
So, while one doesn't want to necessarily squelch (presumably) youthful energy and motivation to do something, one still has to ask, "why???" |
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soks
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Because the words "Works on PS2" brings a tear to his eye?
Although I agree that the words CLOSED SOURCE bring sadness to the heart.
err... umm... becuase you can
d-(^_^)-b |
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HONGXING
Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so I will chip my PS2 and learn PS2DEV myself and come back, if I have some problems. If it's too difficult, I'll try my luck on PSX(PS1).
SP-unlocking is fully legal as opposed to IMEI changing, so don't worry - also it protects freedom of choice. It's not a warez thing like modchips.
Also a simlock is no "technical copy protection measure" to by circumvented. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| HONGXING wrote: |
SP-unlocking is fully legal as opposed to IMEI changing, so don't worry - also it protects freedom of choice. It's not a warez thing like modchips.
Also a simlock is no "technical copy protection measure" to by circumvented. |
Summary: simlocks are the "region lock codes" of the cellphone industry.
It is incorrect to state that SP unlocking is fully legal, with emphasis on the word "fully". As you well know, but I will say it for the benefit of others reading this, the simlock is primarily used to prevent the GSM phone from being used with a different cell service provider, usually by changing out a smart card chip inside the phone.
Changing out this chip is a feature of GSM phones, but sometimes the lock is used because cell phone companies will sell phones at a loss for very cheap prices in order to get you into a long term service contract. Usually they want to ensure the phone is used solely with that company for the duration of the contract in order to recoup their loss and generate profit.
This is "business model protection". Note, I did not say "copy" protection, and I am sure he knew that, but it is entirely besides the point. If you want to buy a phone that comes "unlocked", even from 3rd party cellphone shops, it is amazingly expensive. What costs $50 locked from ATT or Vodafone, costs $200 or more to purchase unlocked from nearly any 3rd party. This ratio of costs differences is fairly normal.
Lets get back to "legal". Depending on whether you want to cast a positive light or a negative light on the legality of the issue, you can say the simlock is more analogous to the Lexmark ink cartidge chip, or more analagous to DVD region codes.
Again for those who are not aware, there is a famous DMCA case where Lexmark, while selling inkjet printers for a loss, in order to charge high prices on replacement ink cartridges, started using a little chip on the cartridges so that only Lexmark cartridges would work. This had the impact of preventing cheaper 3rd party cartridges from working. Some 3rd parties figured out how the chip worked, and starting selling their own versions again. Lexmark sued in court under the DMCA, saying the 3rd parties defeated a technological protection measure that hurt Lexmarks business model. Fortunately, Lexmark lost the case, and a precedent was hopefully set here.
On the other hand, DVD region codes have not been tested in court. DVD region codes, as many know, prevents people from buying movies in one part of the world and playing them on a DVD player bought from, or located in, another part of the world. In this way, the movie studies can sell DVDs for different prices in each region, sell licenses to produce the same movie onto DVD to multiple regions where they don:t have to compete with each other on sales, or make sure people can:t buy a DVD from one region to watch in another region where the movie hasn:t yet been released to movie theatres. This is a technological protection measure to protect a business model, and it has NOT been tested in courts.
Now, I believe the original poster is being overly optimistic here over the issue of the legality of simlocks. It is neither fully legal, nor is it necessarily illegal. The cell phone companies and service providers frown VERY strongly on people hacking it, because it defeats the original purpose and business models built around it.
There are cottage industries in markets around the world, whether in Asia or Europe, and sometimes in the USA, where people can change simlocks for you, FOR A COST! Its almost impossible to find the information and software on how to do this for free, unless you hit the typical warez P2P sites. The fact that the original poster doesn't want to release the full source suggests a commercial intent, which isn't necessarily wrong, but he should be up front about it and many other aspects of the issue.
What does all of this mean for PS2DEV ? Well, discussion of how to break region-coding is disallowed in PS2DEV in order to not piss off Sony and hamper legitimate homebrew efforts. Until, like the Lexmark case, region-coding is tested in courts and declared a legitimate "fair use right", we should consider the details and solicitation of help for cracking them something to not be discussed here. IMHO.
And until then, one should more properly think of simlocks as the "region codes" of the cellphone industry, and treat it accordingly here as well.
(disclaimer: I hate region-codes, I hate simlocks, and I hate silly Lexmarks, but my personal feelings are irrelevant to the issue of whether its a good idea to jump into a hot-tub before making sure the water isn't scalding hot.) |
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:12 am Post subject: |
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I disagree on the legality part. We aren't all in the US and aren't hampered by the same laws. However, this isn't a cellphone forum so we don't need to travel too deeply into the finer technical points please. :)
Also, didn't Lexmark get slapped down over that ink cartridge thing lately?
( http://www.forbes.com/technology/enterprisetech/feeds/ap/2004/10/26/ap1611640.html ) |
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mrbrown
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| ooPo wrote: | | We aren't all in the US |
Just keep an eye out these next four years, because with Bush reelected you might just end up "in the US" :P.
_________________
"He was warned..." |
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pixel
Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 791
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: |
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<troll>Blame canada!</troll>
_________________
pixel: A mischievous magical spirit associated with screen displays. The computer industry has frequently borrowed from mythology. Witness the sprites in computer graphics, the demons in artificial intelligence and the trolls in the marketing department. |
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Drakonite
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 989
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| mrbrown wrote: | | ooPo wrote: | | We aren't all in the US |
Just keep an eye out these next four years, because with Bush reelected you might just end up "in the US" :P. |
Or could just end up in one of the many countries Bush is forcing to adopt DMCA like laws as well.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him.
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Shoot Pixels Not People!
Makeshift Development |
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| I'd like to see the US absorb Quebec. :) |
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mrbrown
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Drakonite wrote: |
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him. |
Heh, I live in Nevada, where my vote counted for absolutely nothing. Did Nebraska's vote count in this election?
Is there any voting system in any other country as stupid as the Electoral College?
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"He was warned..." |
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soks
Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 100
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:32 am Post subject: |
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All we need is for all the states to adopt the splitting idea and it would work out MUCH better, although at that point you might as well count everything and just drop the college.
But then again... Bush won the popular didn't he... at least this time he did. (yeah counting issues everywhere but if you accept it he did) |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Oopo,
I am quite aware we aren:t all in the United States, but what arguments do we use when people come here wanting to break region-coding, DNAS, MG, and so on ? No matter what country they are in, we tell them to shove off. Granted this isn't cellphone forum, but I was trying to present a consistent response. If our attitudes towards these kinds of protections have changed, then by all means lets discuss all of these additional things.
And BTW, I did mention Lexmark getting losing their court case.
Gorim |
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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No offense was meant, gorim. I just didn't see the harm in the topic other than it being a bit offtopic for a ps2dev forum. Here's how I look at it...
Cracking and pirating PS2 games is against the law in the vast majority of the planet. Unlocking cellphones isn't. It may be in the future, or after being tested in court... but in the meantime its generally legal and pirating PS2 games generally isn't.
Unlocking a cellphone doesn't seem much different to me than unlocking a PS2 with a modchip. The act itself isn't wrong, but what you can do with the result can be.
..but then, I know I'm not the be all and end all of the rules. How do other people feel about this topic? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Oopo, no offence taken :) However, my dry unemotional style can sometimes be misinterpreted ;)
Anyhow, given the similarities between unlocking phones and other stuff that both has and has not been DMCA tested in the US, or anything similar in other countries, I was trying to advocate a position of caution in uncertain legal waters. Someone in the USA would definitely be advised caution in working with someone in this area.
While not truly on topic, I think this is an exercise in understanding where we might draw lines in the future. Hey, I can be persuaded not to care about many things. :) |
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Drakonite
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 989
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mrbrown wrote: | Did Nebraska's vote count in this election?
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Heh.. not really.. although techincally it was close enough that if any state went the other way it could have been different.
I figured it out before the election though... My vote would have counted for less than 1 two millionth of half a percent. That was assuming a 50% voter turn out, which there ended up being significantly more than that, which means I would have been more along the lines of 1 three millionth of half a percent...
| ooPo wrote: | | ..but then, I know I'm not the be all and end all of the rules. How do other people feel about this topic? |
I think all the forum admins have posted in this thread and none have locked it, so I think that casts a few votes ;)
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Shoot Pixels Not People!
Makeshift Development |
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EugeneE3RD
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| gorim wrote: | | Well, in fairness he checked first on ps-scene.org and someone directed him here. I almost posted on ps2-scene.org suggesting it might not be a good idea considering everything, but was conflicted on whether to discourage posting in advance. |
I was the person on PS2 Scene who directed HONGXING to ps2dev.org . I did this since I have very little experience in PS2 programming so I told him that ps2dev would probably be his best bet.
On the legality of unlocking cellphones, I don't really know the laws so I don't know if unlocking cellphones would be illegal.
BTW: I am known as EugeneWE3RD on PS2 Scene & I moderate the homebrew/Dev forum of PS2 Scene.
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You no mess with Lo Wang- Lo Wang (Shadow Warrior). |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Eugene!
I hope you didn't take my comments as an indictment, in the end, I decided it was the perfectly reasonable and right thing to do to send someone where they can make their case and might get help.
It seems there is more PS2DEV and PS2-SCENE crossover synergy happening. Not a bad thing at all IMHO.
The general consensus, as mentioned by Drakonite, seems to be this type of request/activity is not a problem. Sorry for making such a fuss. ;) |
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