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ajcrm125
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: How do you guys develop your graphics apps? |
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Just curious what the mthod of choice is for you guys:
DreamGL?
ps2sdk?
some other GL api?
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boomint
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 80
Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I think I need a new tag line...
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pixel
Joined: 30 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:09 am Post subject: |
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ps2sdk has no graphical layer at all...
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Shazz
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| boomint wrote: | | I think I need a new tag line... |
| Code: | tag.replace(tag.begin()+tag.find('b')
tag.begin()+tag.find(',')-1
"PS2");
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Or sth like that ;-)
ajcrm125, I love the PS2 because it's in my mind like 80's computers, you need to code as low level as possible... so no layerGL ! Simply build your DMA packets or some 'low' level GS libs like GSLib, Libito...
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ajcrm125
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ajcrm125, I love the PS2 because it's in my mind like 80's computers, you need to code as low level as possible... so no layerGL ! Simply build your DMA packets or some 'low' level GS libs like GSLib, Libito... |
True, but I would think that someone would have written a GL interface that simply exploits all the features of the PS2 hardware yet allows the user to write code at a higher level. Sike OpenGL for example...
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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...and that someone could be you. :)
The hardware wasn't designed for the general-purpose usage you'd need for an opengl or directx style library. Its certainly possible, but it would be annoying and ugly in places. Not fun = nobody wants to do it.
You could always use dreamgl, gslib or gsKit I guess. Then you won't have to get your hands dirty by touching any low-level hardware code... I don't understand why you're bothing with the PS2 in that case though. You would probably be happier on a pc or even the xbox if all you want to do is use high-level libraries. |
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ajcrm125
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You could always use dreamgl, gslib or gsKit I guess. Then you won't have to get your hands dirty by touching any low-level hardware code... I don't understand why you're bothing with the PS2 in that case though. You would probably be happier on a pc or even the xbox if all you want to do is use high-level libraries. |
Nooooo! Okay okay.. I'm sorry. I'll be good. Please no x-box or pc.
:-D
I'm a hardware designer by trade (digital ASIC developer) and can't wait to get into the PS2 hardware. But I also do game development and would be willing to bet that OpenGL was probably included in the official Sony PS2 SDK. Which enables game developers to create their games in a single graphics API and simply compile it on their system of choice. Which is why you typically see a game being released on 2 or more systems that are virtually identical.
OpenGL for PS2?
"Sounds like a chaaaaleeeeenge!" - Stinko Man from Homestarrunner.com
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Shazz
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 244
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm a hardware designer by trade (digital ASIC developer) and can't wait to get into the PS2 hardware. |
You should ! That's fascinating... 1 Mips, 2 DSPs, a wide bus... ;-)
| Quote: | | But I also do game development and would be willing to bet that OpenGL was probably included in the official Sony PS2 SDK. Which enables game developers to create their games in a single graphics API and simply compile it on their system of choice. Which is why you typically see a game being released on 2 or more systems that are virtually identical. |
As I understood, Sony did not wanted to redo the same mistake as they did with the PSone, give a buggy & hi level SDK... let have true PS2 coders !
As you would read (I suggest you read nice articles from Sony's PS2 HW architects, feel free to ask me those papers), the PS2 was not designed to be "another" host where to port games (generically coded, based on hi level libs), but to have coders code specifically for the PS2 in order to get the best of the hardware (have everything busy, the CPU and the 2 VUs, using the wide bus).. the PS2 is all except a PC... so need to think different, that's why you are still able to see wondeful games on the PS2 which is basically less powerful than a Xbox... compare ported games to native PS2 games (GT, PES,...) you'll understand !
Hope you'll understand this philosophy, this is the PS2 spice !
But if you want to implement an efficient openGL API... using all the capabilities of the PS2... (humpf what a job !) let's go !
eh eh no news from the SDL port :D
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| ajcrm125 wrote: | But I also do game development and would be willing to bet that OpenGL was probably included in the official Sony PS2 SDK. Which enables game developers to create their games in a single graphics API and simply compile it on their system of choice. Which is why you typically see a game being released on 2 or more systems that are virtually identical.
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As a (former) PS2 game developer, I can assure you there was no such opengl library included in the official SDK. Sony really pushed the concept of 'middleware' with the PS2, which meant you buy a library or engine from a 3rd party company instead of expecting it from Sony or even doing it yourself. This has the side-effect of making porting to other systems easy - you just buy a multiplatform engine. Or, abstract the platform-specific bits to minimize which parts you have to rewrite for a different platform.
Regardless, I can't imagine Sony would actually want to make porting AWAY from the PS2 easy. That just doesn't make sense. |
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ajcrm125
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As a (former) PS2 game developer, I can assure you there was no such opengl library included in the official SDK. |
No kiddin? Wow.. shows what I know.
:-)
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mrbrown
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:44 am Post subject: |
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Um, when has Sony ever pushed middleware?
If anything they push "do it yourself or your framerate will suffer".
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mrbrown
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Well, let me be more specific, Sony seems to push development tools as middleware, but I've never seen them promote a third-party graphics library.
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ooPo
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps back when the PS2 was fresh and new Sony pushed a lot more than they do now. They gave us a bunch of literature on different middleware engines and physics libs, etc. It really seemed like Sony was telling us to forget about getting good code or support from them.
It was all too expensive anyway, so we did our own. Maybe that's what most people did, and is why they don't bother so much anymore? |
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mrbrown
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1536
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:21 am Post subject: |
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I dunno. All I know is programming the PS2 is **** hard. Hooray!
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ooPo
Site Admin
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2032
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| **** yeah! |
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